About This Episode
Welcome to episode 5 of the PHW Podcast! Join Dr. Marvin as she meets with Kaileigh McLaughlin DC, who shares her story about becoming a chiropractor at Prairie Health and Wellness. This episode delves into the history and evolution of chiropractic care, highlighting how PHW’s approach goes beyond traditional practices to focus on the root causes of mobility issues and reduces dependency on adjustments. We explore the integrated services offered at Movement by PHW, including Chiropractic, MAT, Physical Therapy, Massage, MNRI, and Personal Training that combine to enhance overall health and mobility. Dr. Kaileigh discusses the Webster Technique for pregnant women, pediatric adjustments, and addresses some common misconceptions in the world of chiropractic care. The conversation also highlights the importance of understanding fascia and the key role it plays in connecting the systems of the body.
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Episode Transcript
Auto-generated from the episode audio — may contain minor transcription errors.
Well, I mean, I think the biggest thing here is we have a wonderful team approach, so as a chiropractor here I can connect and coordinate with all of my patients' primary care providers, and understand what's going on with them metabolically, hormonally, you know, with all of those things, and I feel like in the world of private practice that was really difficult to achieve, because it was really hard to get records, it was really hard to touch base, one patient at a time, with their main provider. So having that more intimate understanding of all the moving parts and pieces is super, super helpful, um, and then we have an entire movement center here, and I think that's the biggest difference, um, we have a team here of, you know, chiropractor, massage therapist, personal trainers, um, muscle activation technique therapist, uh, Thai yoga massage therapist, and physical therapist, that all have the same mindset on movement, and our goal is to just keep people moving better, getting stronger, and moving forward, and that starts with a lot of education.
Welcome to episode 5 of the PHW podcast, um, I'm your host today, Dr. Kristen Marvin, and I have the honor of interviewing our very own Dr. Kylie. Hello, um, she is one of our chiropractors here at Movement, and today I'm just looking forward to having a fun conversation about chiropractic and about our movement center, and a few other fun things too. First, I want to give, um, credit where credit is due, and just acknowledge how beautiful our new podcast studio is, it truly, um, has been a labor of love, uh, many employees, um, put blood, sweat, and tears into putting this all together, even this beautiful wall behind us, um, was built by a few very special people in our office, so excited to be in our new space too.
Um, but without further ado, Dr. Kylie, um, introduce yourself to our listeners, I think people will be excited to learn more about you and your history of being a chiropractor. Yeah, um, I am Kylie Molyn, I'm a chiropractor, I am, uh, 12 years into practice now, I was born and raised originally in Dodge City, Kansas, um, where I grew up seeing a chiropractor my entire life, um, and I really wanted to go to pharmacy school, until I had knee and elbow surgery from some injuries in softball, and meds made me sick, and so I decided, huh, maybe that's not the route I wanted to go.
Um, and then I met a different chiropractor, and she kind of mentored me into getting into chiropractic school and working in her office, and really understanding why chiropractic was so important, because I didn't know otherwise. So um, now I am married to my husband Josh, and we have three little kids and baby number four on the way in October. Oh — um, and yeah, I was in private practice for a little while, in a family wellness and pediatric perinatal practice, um, and the Lord called me to step away from private practice, and then he opened a door for me to be here at Prairie Health and Wellness, so which we are so lucky and thankful for.
You're sweet, um, I was lucky enough to benefit from the care of Dr. Kylie before she joined our practice, in your private practice, and um, she was a big help for me during one of my pregnancies, and I think that's a topic that we'll definitely touch on today, for sure. Yeah, um, but first of all, can you just give our listeners a little bit of the history behind chiropractic, I think it's — I've learned about it, it's a very, I think, interesting story of sorts, um, so yeah, tell us a little bit about the history.
Yeah, so I would say the first chiropractic adjustment that is documented is done by D.D. Palmer, um, he had a gentleman approach him, um, saying that he couldn't hear out of one of his ears, and he was in a lot of pain, and so D.D. did some adjusting on him, and shortly after that his hearing was restored, and I don't know about his pain levels, I don't know that that was recorded, but I would like to think that maybe he felt better, but he could hear better. Um, and so D.D. started diving into the why behind that, like, why did this adjustment in his neck or his upper back make a difference on his hearing, and thus began the study of chiropractic.
So yeah, that's so interesting. Mhm, um, what do you think the mechanism was behind that, like, I think that's sometimes a question that people have in their minds, like, how does that work, do we have a really good understanding, or what are your thoughts on it? I think there's a couple of layers to it, I think, one, our nervous system controls everything, and our nervous system is housed in our spine, all of our organs and systems are protected by our spine and our skeletal structure, including our brain, um, and so when we apply adjustments to those areas, and free up range of motion and restriction on those areas, it lets the nervous system function better.
Um, I also kind of wonder, um, I see a lot of kids with plugged up ears, and even adults with allergies and things, and I kind of wonder if his lymphatic system was bogged down, if his sinuses were congested, if maybe he had a little bit of an infection blocking his hearing, um, so an adjustment could have helped clear up and remove that interference in that flow of all of his lymphatics and eustachian tube drainage and everything too, so I think there's a couple of ways that that could have happened.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, so essentially you're saying that, you know, we know that the nervous system in the body innervates all of these structures, like organs and muscles and things like that, and um, if those nerves, like, even coming out of the spinal cord, or wherever they're at in the body, are essentially restricted in their movement, that then it can impact that organ, or whatever it is that's being innervated, it can, uh, impact that function essentially. Absolutely, I think it's really cool, one of my favorite parts of practice is that some people will come to us specifically for an area of pain, and what we get reported back on the flip side of that is, oh, I can breathe better, oh, I'm sleeping better, my digestion is better, you know, all of those things, and it's all of the side effects — I should maybe not say side effects — but it's all, like, the plus side of chiropractic, of, yes, we are working on joints and muscles and ligaments and tendons and helping with pain, but we're also helping the brain and the body communicate better and more efficiently.
So that makes sense, I hear that all the time, you know, I see a lot of patients who come in with digestive complaints or gut issues, and it's always so funny to me how they might say, yeah, I saw the chiropractor, and you know what, like, I actually pooped better after my adjustment, a lot of people are embarrassed to ask that question, but I'm like, it happens daily. Yeah, but I can see, you know, if you don't really know a lot about chiropractic, or understand, you know, what we just kind of talked through about how that helps the system, that it might seem funny, but when — again, when you think about it, like, oh my gosh, no, there are all these nerves that are coming out of the spine and innervating the gut, for example, and if those impulses, those messengers, I guess what I'm trying to say, those messages are basically getting to that instructed structure, so that you get more normal function.
Yeah, total sense. Yeah, um, so talk to us a little bit about chiropractic at Prairie Health at Movement, like, how is that maybe different than what you'll kind of see out in the rest of the world? Yeah, absolutely, well, I mean, I think the biggest thing here is we have a wonderful team approach, so as a chiropractor here I can connect and coordinate with all of my patients' primary care providers, and understand what's going on with them metabolically, hormonally, you know, with all of those things, and I feel like in the world of private practice that was really difficult to achieve, because it was really hard to get records, it was really hard to touch base, one patient at a time, with their main provider.
So having that more intimate understanding of all the moving parts and pieces is super, super helpful, um, and then we have an entire movement center here, and I think that's the biggest difference, um, we have a team here of, you know, chiropractor, massage therapist, personal trainers, um, muscle activation technique therapist, uh, Thai yoga massage therapist, and physical therapist that all have the same mindset on movement, and our goal is to just keep people moving better, getting stronger, and moving forward, and that starts with a lot of education as well.
Um, I feel like in private practice it's easy to educate, like, one-on-one and fairly quickly on certain subjects, but here it's been a little bit of a shift, in the sense that I get a bigger picture of our patients, and so I can dive in a little bit deeper on specifics of what they need, whether that's nutritional supplementation, or a certain kind of therapy, like muscle activation technique, or massage therapy, or PT, that I think makes a big difference for people. Right, so it truly is more of, like, a holistic approach for a patient from a movement perspective. Yes, absolutely, because maybe, for example, like I'm thinking of just, like, you mentioned some of the metabolic issues, right, and how difficult that might be for maybe a chiropractor who's out in private practice, really trying to help people work on the structural pieces, but if there's, like, metabolic obstacles, like if somebody has diabetes, and their blood sugar's sky high, and that's causing a lot of damage and inflammation to the nerves, or the nervous system.
Yeah, how difficult that probably is to then, you know, help that patient get better from a movement perspective alone, right? Absolutely, so I think that makes a lot of sense, what you're saying, and obviously can see that as a huge benefit. Um, so if — you know, walk us through maybe what an appointment with you looks like at our movement center. Yeah, so if you're a new patient to me, I like to really take the time to get to know you, we have full hours set aside for those appointments, so um, you do have an intake sheet that you fill out, that gives me kind of a, um, maybe a map to guide and direct our conversation a little bit, but um, I really open the floor to you guys, as patients, to just listen to what brings you in for chiropractic care, what ailments you have, um, you know, I'll ask you things about what makes it better, what makes it worse, but then we'll also go into your whole health history, as far as, you know, what are you working with with your primary care providers next door, um, what is your surgical history, trauma history, mental health history, um, all of those things.
And then from that point, um, I do a physical examination, um, that can — that can be a variety of orthopedic testing, neuro testing, range of motion testing, um, to really figure out what tissues are causing the issue, where the true joint restriction is, and it just helps my clinical brain really understand, okay, what kind of therapy or adjustment does this patient truly need, um, specifically, and then based off of that, um, I will tell my patients, you know, what my findings are, what my suggestion would be, and if they want to go ahead and proceed with treatment, then we go ahead and do our adjustments and treatment.
So yeah, that sounds awesome, um, what — maybe give our listeners a comparison, as far as, like, what does that timing look like, especially compared to maybe what else is out there in the world. Yeah, our first initial visits are an hour, um, followup visits are a full 30 minutes, so we can really touch base on how you've been since last visit, how you did right after last visit, especially if you're very new to chiropractic. Um, and we can also discuss, you know, at-home exercises, or nutritional support, or just process through, you know, some things that are going on in the body, and we have a little bit more time allowed for that.
Yeah, um, as far as treatment goes, like, as far as treatment plans, I guess there's no one cookie-cutter response, you know, every patient is literally completely different, so um, it depends on, you know, what brings you in, whether it's acute pain, or have you been seeing chiropractic regularly, or you're just here, hey, I just want to see how chiropractic can benefit me, so more on a wellness basis, um, if you're really inflamed, or if there's a lot going on metabolically, or if stress is really high during life, you may need a higher frequency of patient visits, versus someone that is not in that season of life.
Um, so I can't give one answer for, like, this is the treatment plan, because it's different for everyone. So yeah, so it's truly individualized, right, as it should be. And I tell all my patients too, because I get the question a lot, of, you know, like, well, do we have to keep coming in, you know, and I'm like, well, you don't have to, if you want to, you can, you know, but also, um, kind of my goal as a chiropractor has always been to, um, put space between visits for patients, to where they can really evaluate, how am I doing between visits, and if they do great, adjustment-wise, they don't need a lot going on at that next visit, then we put more space between the next visit and that visit.
And with the goal of kind of working out to find kind of their sweet spot for where is their wellness adjustment, to where they're staying out of pain cycles, you know, inflammatory flares, they're managing their stress throughout their body, okay, but also not going too long and coming in for a checkup, so that wellness window looks very different for every patient, and it's very different for every patient in different seasons as well, so our treatment plans are very customized to our patients. So that makes a lot of sense, yeah, versus just, like, only using chiropractic if you've got, like, an acute injury, like you were maybe doing yard work and hurt your back, using it more so from, like, a proactive, like preventative space, when you're thinking about the wellness visits.
Yeah, and I think — so that, gosh, what you said about the timing of the visit is probably unheard of out in the rest of the world, right, I mean — I guess I should admit, I mean, it's not like I haven't been — or I've not been to several other places, like, you know, to receive chiropractic care, but at least from what I hear from our patients, or people that I know, is that, you know, a lot of places it's like maybe you get five or 10 minutes with the chiropractor, and you know, sometimes too, I hear that it seems like they just kind of do the same thing every time.
So this, I think, leads us into another good area or topic of, just, what are some of those common misconceptions with chiropractic care, because these are the types of things that we hear from people, and I think some of them are valid concerns, like, especially like you're saying, you know, people want to know, how often do I have to come back or come in, um, because again, I think there are places out there that kind of are set up like that, like, they're, you know, just are set up in a sense to not really encourage maybe healing or optimizing somebody, it's almost like creating a little bit of a dependency, and I certainly — I won't, you know, claim that that's, like, everybody's intention, it could just be the style of practice, or how they were trained.
Yeah, but yeah, maybe elaborate a little bit on some of those types of things. I think the biggest part of that question is, it goes back to the philosophy of the chiropractor, and I love our profession, because there are so many different ways to practice chiropractic, and so — not everyone has the same cup of tea, you know, like, to their liking, and um, so I actually really love that about our profession, because I do feel like there are patients that want very regular care, they want to not spend a lot of time in an office, like spend 30 minutes for an appointment, because that feels like too much or too personal, um, versus some patients that really do want the time.
And so I think our profession is beautiful, in the sense that there is that wide variety out there, but I think all of that goes back to the philosophy of the chiropractor, of, you know, there's some philosophy of, you know, more frequent adjustments equals, you know, more wellness, you know, and while I love getting adjusted very frequently, I also want my body to be able to stabilize and hold those adjustments and be stable longer, and so that's where these other therapies that are, you know, provided at the Movement Center come into such a key play — a key player in that, is just working on stabilizing the body, so the body can be well for longer periods of time without all this extra support.
Yeah, that is hard to come by sometimes, so that makes sense, I can definitely think of patients that I have, where they felt stuck in a place where they had to constantly rely on getting back in, getting back into their chiropractor, and when we sent them over to Movement to help them identify where some of those, like, structural weaknesses were at, and just what needed, like, more strengthening and support, they found that they didn't need as many chiropractic adjustments. Absolutely, and I mean, I love seeing my patients, but yeah, totally, I don't want them to have to be adjusted all the time because they're not holding adjustments, you know, love you, patient, but we don't want to see you all the time, but we know you don't want to see us all the time either, we want our bodies to be healthy and be well.
So yeah, stabilizing is good. Yeah, yeah, so I can see how, through some of those ways you're talking about, where that makes our movement center kind of stand out, right, and you know, be a really good resource for our patients. Um, absolutely, so here's — probably, I'm going to go out on a limb, no pun intended, and guess that this is one of the most common misconceptions that people have about chiropractic, or these are just, like, this is something that they're told, I would love to hear it, because I, like, sometimes I hear misconceptions and I'm like, well, that's crazy, and then I don't think much more about it, so off the top of my head I'm struggling coming up with, you know, specifics.
So and sometimes this advice comes from — and maybe this person's, like, other medical professional, like maybe a primary care doctor or whoever else — that's like, do not go see a chiropractor, um, you will — they can, you know, adjusting your neck will cause you to have a stroke, or you know, just how it's not helpful in whatever way, but I feel like the stroke thing is probably the most kind of well-known misconception, that for some reason there's, like, some crazy increased risk that there's going to be this really bad, significant thing that, like, happens if you go see your chiropractor, so can you maybe elaborate on that a little bit?
Well, you know, when I, like, look into some of the articles that our — my old malpractice used to send me about stroke analysis and things like that, it really seemed like the chiropractors involved in these cases were not doing their due diligence, so a patient was coming in with a really bad headache, or stroke-like symptoms, and they missed those symptoms, and so they went ahead and proceeded with adjustments, and then after that, of course, the stroke continued to proceed, and so it kind of looked like, oh, the adjustment caused the stroke, and I'm definitely not saying that that's 100% of the cases, I don't think that's true at all, but I do wonder how many of them are those cases where the chiropractor — I mean, there is human error in practice, you know, and so it makes me wonder how often, you know, those signs are just missed and not handled appropriately.
Yeah, um, the other flip side of it is, you know, the point of us taking a really solid case history, and where I love working with the primary care providers here at Prairie Health, is that I know if there's soft tissue, you know, disorders, I know if there's calcium scores that are high, I know that if there's high blood pressure, you know, like, I know all of the risk factors for stroke and chiropractic care, and we can cater our adjusting to those needs, so maybe where there would be less rotational adjusting and more instrument-assisted adjusting, with activator methods or impulse adjusting, um, we can change up some things like that.
So well, that makes a lot of sense, so essentially what you're saying is that some of the literature is really showing that, you know, unfortunately, when somebody's presenting with common symptoms, right, for seeing a chiropractor — I have a headache, my neck hurts — you know, I mean, I can even think of how a medical provider can brush off certain things, where, like, if their blood pressure is elevated, well, that's probably just because they're in so much pain, but yeah, so those are obviously some of the common signs and symptoms of a stroke, and then, like, with what you're saying, the chiropractor goes on, provides their treatment, and the stroke that already essentially was starting, continues.
So yeah, yeah, um, and you know, I mean, like you said, medical providers, we're all human — yes — we are not perfect, we miss things, we make mistakes and errors, but gosh, just certainly speaks to, I think, you know, when you're trying to pick any kind of medical provider to be on your team, to really do your due diligence and ask them questions, and you know, get to know more about them and their training, and that type of thing. So absolutely, and I love how you said too — just, you so beautifully, like, gave these amazing examples, that I don't know many chiropractors that would be like, know what a calcium score is, for example.
Well, I've learned all that here. Um, any other, like, you know, misconceptions, like, what about, you know, is chiropractic, like, is it really good for acute injuries? Um, sometimes I think people don't realize that with an acute injury, you could benefit, you know, that there are probably ways that you can help move inflammation, or get inflammation down, or that type of thing. Well, especially anything that — you know, if you think about acute flare-ups of joint inflammation, pain, muscle tightness, spasm, you know, if you think about, you know, impingement on the nervous system, doesn't let those tissues function well, or heal well, or communicate well with the brain on their needs, or, you know, what they need.
Um, so adjustments that are very, very gentle, even within the realm that feel very comfortable to a patient in a lot of pain, can provide a lot of neuro feedback to the brain, saying, hey, you're safe, hey, it's okay, let's settle down, and it can help with a lot of pain management. And then we've learned through the years that movement during acute injuries is so important, whereas kind of the old school "rest, ice, compression, elevation" and don't let it — is always the best. Along these lines, I mean, that makes me think of a patient I had recently who was having some discomfort, some muscular skeletal discomfort and headaches, and um, she had been working with a chiropractor, went and got a second opinion from another one, um, but with that, just — and I think this kind of fits into these common misconceptions too, of being afraid of the adjustment, like, is it going to be really forceful, is it going to hurt.
And so, you know, what she was describing is, she had this adjustment, and it was really painful for her, so I was kind of talking through maybe why that could be with her, and then was encouraging her to come see you. Um, so maybe can you touch on that a little bit, cause that's something that I've learned about chiropractic, the force of the adjustment versus, like, the speed or the velocity of the adjustment, so can you, like, just dig into that a little bit for our listeners? Yeah, so there's — I mean, so many different chiropractic techniques, and a lot of them are catered to, like, how the provider practices, based off of their body strength, and their — again, back to philosophy as well, um, so I grew up seeing a very, very, um, what would feel very heavy-handed adjusting adjuster, so like more force, um, well, I mean, one would call it that, but he also practiced Gonstead technique, and Gonstead technique is a very, very, very specific technique, so even if he was using very light force, his specificity on adjusting was powerful, so it felt like a lot, if that makes sense.
And so then when I went through chiropractic school and I learned about impulse adjusting and Activator Method, I learned that there was different ways of applying the force that you need to get a joint or a segment to move, depending on mass and acceleration — so, good old physics, force equals mass times acceleration. So some techniques call for more mass, so that may be more hands-on manual adjusting, um, some techniques call for more acceleration and lighter mass to get the force that we need, so that would be like impulse adjusting, um, and activator methods.
Um, so I think there's different ways to approach different things, but I think that is where, you know, every adjustment is catered to the patient individually, but also visit individually, because there are going to be patients that are your wellness patients, but they'll come in one day and they're really inflamed, and they can't handle quite as much mass, you know, for adjusting, so we can cater that over to a more acceleration-based adjustment, um, to help with that discomfort during adjusting. That makes sense, just to clarify for some of our listeners who may not know what impulse or activator adjusting is, can you describe that a little bit? We should have brought a prop to show, but maybe just describe it, and some of your patients, of course, that see you, will know what you're talking about.
But yeah, so um, activator methods is an instrument-assisted adjusting, um, technique, um, there's a whole protocol that you go through, when screening the spine and the body, of what needs adjusted and where. Um, then the adjustment, instead of it being applied with your hands, and using, you know, like — chiro means hand — so instead of using that, um, you use the instrument, that is a high-acceleration impulse, and very specific, into a joint to get it moving. So um, the impulse adjuster, it's literally the exact same, activator methods, just a more automatic tool that's more ergonomic for the chiro.
When I think about my own adjustments that I've had, you really can tell the difference, um, and especially, you know, I think with the cervical or neck adjustments, people are understandably, you know, maybe nervous, um, that might be too strong of a word, or just a little apprehensive, but understandably, I mean, the neck is a very vulnerable area, um, but yeah, when I think about my cervical adjustments that I've received, it's actually, if anything, there's just more velocity versus force, like, it's not super forceful, my joints have never felt like they were just thrusted or forced, you know, into a position, but just really guided.
Um, but quickly, essentially, right, like, it just feels fast. Well, and I had several, like, instructors in school that I really, really, um, appreciate, like, long-term, still now out in the practice, who knew that women did not have upper body strength like men, so we needed to learn to adjust differently, we had to rely on more finesse and more acceleration than just force, that men just have naturally in their upper bodies, and so that really requires us, as a practitioner, especially female practitioners, to hone in on the patient and work with their body, and not force their body into doing something.
Which sounds more natural anyways, right, not forcing the body into a position, but actually — yeah — guiding it to help it get there. So that's really good. Yeah, um, I feel like this can maybe be a misconception, but I think also touches upon something that you're really passionate about, and that's, you know, can you be pregnant and get chiropractic care? Yes, yes, and yes. So so yeah, talk about that, talk about — I know some people may be familiar with certain types of techniques that are associated with pregnancy. Yeah, so yeah, it's a deep dive on it, because people want to hear it.
Yeah, so uh, pregnancy and chiropractic is very safe, um, a long time ago there was a practitioner named Larry Webster, that was practicing in his town, and the way — the way I understood it, is, you know, a lot of the women in his community were seeing him, so the hospital noticed, you know, patients under Larry Webster's care are having really smooth, easy labor deliveries, faster deliveries, they're more comfortable, and the women that are not — you know, their intervention rate was higher, whether that was needing, you know, support with, you know, pain management, whether that was needing, you know, support with, you know, vacuum, or forceps, or C-section even, and so they went to Larry and said, hey, what are you doing, you know.
And so he began his research in what's now called the Webster technique in the prenatal world, um, so Webster technique is a very specific analysis of the hips and the pelvis of a mom, um, based off of that restriction we do very specific adjustments into that area, and then there's also several steps to that as well, releasing soft tissue — so there's round ligaments, there's piriformis, there's psoas, or hip flexors, there's uterosacral ligaments, um, all of those — so we go through the mom's body and body balance her, and that research has shown that women have more, um, comfortable labors and deliveries, more comfortable pregnancies, um, babies have less intrauterine constraint during those pregnancies, so they can get into better fetal positioning for labor and delivery, which obviously makes mom more comfortable as well.
Um, so I am certified in Webster technique, and I love working on pregnant women, um, so I just love that. That's awesome, that's so awesome, um, yeah, so what does — I mean, does that visit look much different than just kind of your typical chiropractic care, or do you — yeah, you're just kind of focusing maybe a little more in those areas, like you're talking about, if a woman's pregnant. Yeah, right, I mean, throughout pregnancy we definitely still do full spine adjusting, um, but I also — with Webster technique specifically, it's just a little bit different analysis, but it's still very comfortable, mamas can still lay face down on their tummies, we have pillows to kind of help cushion their tummies so they can lay face down all throughout pregnancy — oftentimes it's the only time moms will get to lay on their stomach.
I was going to say, do moms sometimes just call to come in, like, can I come lay on your pillow, well, they ask if they cannot get up, they just, like, just lay here. Yeah, exactly, um, so it looks very similar, but just a different way of evaluating, um, adjustments are very similar as well, um, gentle adjusting, a lot with activator and impulse adjusting, um, to keep moms comfortable. Yes, well, speaking from experience, I — like I mentioned earlier, um, I came to see you during my second pregnancy, and yeah, it was such a wonderful tool, um, you know, along with feeling like it was just, like, a little self-care thing I was doing for myself, I could tell a difference just in, you know, some of those really common, I think, aches and pains that women experience as their bodies are growing and shifting.
Um, I think anybody who has been pregnant, that, you know, in that way, knows what I'm talking about, right, where there's a lot of pressure in certain areas. Yes, you feel like your pelvis is just going to split open, you know, lots of, lots of, you know, fun graphic things, maybe I'll save for the listeners. Yes, for the men, yeah, some of the men, anyways, the women are like, no, keep going, keep telling us, like, you know, what are those terrible things that we've all — we all know and have experienced. But yeah, that, um, I love that, I love that that's an option, and it makes so much sense, right, it just goes back to that structural piece, and if things are allowed to move as they should.
I will say there's one kind of misconception with, um, chiropractic care and pregnancy, is, like, you'll get on mommy blogs or Facebook groups, and they'll say, my chiropractor spun my baby around, or my baby's no longer breech or malpositioned, and I really like to clarify a lot, that we don't practice obstetrics, like, we do not turn babies, we get mom's bodies balanced, so baby can naturally get into their own ideal position, so we do not practice obstetrics, so we'll make that really clear for the record. So what you're saying is that, yeah, if you get the body moving and structurally supported and balanced, then that baby can essentially spin itself, like it's supposed to, and get into that proper birthing position.
Yep, and some of my favorite things to address with moms is just, you know, what are their ergonomics throughout the day, you know, what is their belly doing, what is their lower back doing, what is their upper back doing, um, I am trained in spinning babies as well, so I like to give them at-home exercises to do, those sorts of things, to help with if there is any malposition or discomfort or aches and pains, to just help their body stay mobile for all of pregnancy. That sounds amazing, love that, I think that's such a great resource, I bet a lot of women actually don't know that that's available to them, especially for pregnancy.
Yeah, mhm, okay, well that's a good transition for the next step, for that sweet little baby that comes out. So that's — yeah, can babies do chiropractic care, and even transition that into childhood, like, what are some of your favorite things that you're able to do, and just maybe stuff that people don't know about, how chiropractic can support their young ones? Yeah, so babies can be adjusted literally the moment that they're born, because they have spines, so — and they're alive and breathing, obviously they need to be with their mama right out for their birth, but um, all of my kids have been adjusted, one was within a day, and the other two were within four hours of birth, um, and so that's kind of a big part of why I'm really passionate about adjusting babies, is because I've seen such a huge difference that it's made with my own.
So with babies, um, obviously they go through a lot with the birthing process as well, you know, their cranium has to fold up to come through the birth canal, and then they're delivered, um, and then if it's a C-section delivery, you know, there is force put on them there as well, that is still not a gentle process, um, maybe they didn't go through a small birth canal, but they're still being tractioned and pulled and tugged, and um, their nervous systems and their bodies need support as well. Um, so babies can absolutely get adjusted, their adjusting looks very different from adult manual or hands-on adjusting, um, baby spines and craniums are mostly made of cartilage, so they don't need the force that sometimes adults need to be adjusted, so kind of my best reference that I tell patients is, it's if you have a really ripe tomato, and you squeeze into it right before it busts, that's about the amount of force that I use, um, for an infant adjustment.
Um, another alternative would be the amount of pressure you can tolerate on your eyeball, so it's very, very gentle and very specific. Overall, um, most babies will melt and relax and sleep into their adjustments, um, we do have some kiddos that are really colicky, and just really dysregulated — maybe talk a little bit more — but by the end of the adjustment they're usually either pooping or sleeping, so that's good. I have a picture of my oldest, when she was, I don't know, maybe like four weeks old, after a chiropractic adjustment, and she's like this — yes, they're so relaxed. Just so — yeah, so sweet, good, it is so sweet.
So um, really babies can be adjusted anytime, I think the main thing that I tell moms for their postpartum adjustment, and also for their infant adjustment, is follow their intuition, like, if it's too much for mom to get out of the house, then it's probably too early. Yeah, if mom's intuition is, something's not quite right here, baby needs freed up, or baby's really stuck or not turning their head, or, you know, using an arm or a hip or a leg, or screaming during, you know, clothing changes, then follow your intuition and bring them in sooner, you know, so I always go back to mom's — mom's intuition, cause mom knows best.
Right, aren't they — they just know, I mean, I fail daily, but — this is true, this is true — but when it comes to those types of things, I think all moms know, we know what you're talking about, our gut intuition is — is very spot-on. Yes, absolutely, um, so from infancy into childhood, obviously children grow at rapid speed, um, they're going through a lot, learning how to roll over, how to crawl, how to sit up, how to stand, how to walk, how to run, how to jump, how to ride bikes, you know, with all of those, um, and just like our bodies go through so much change during pregnancy, with our center of gravity changing, our strength areas changing, you know, chiropractic adjustments help our bodies keep up with that, just like chiropractic adjustments help their bodies keep growing and keeping up with that as well.
Um, so kind of if I have, you know, wellness pediatric cases, um, we're usually seeing them more that first year of life, because they are growing so much, and they're doing so much, um, and then we kind of find what their wellness sweet spot is, but if we're really kind of wondering, like, or if a mom is really wondering, you know, how often do I need to be coming in, if kind of, like, the things that we were coming in for initially are resolved, I would say around milestones, because if their brains are going through this big neurological leap of learning something new, their bodies are going to be going through that too, so support them with a chiropractic adjustment or two, and yeah, or whatever else they need.
Yeah, that makes sense, what — what are, just for listeners maybe that aren't totally familiar with some of the, like, so-called milestones, roughly, like, what can that look like, you know, just give some examples, if you will. Yeah, so the rolling over, the crawling, the walking, you know, the standing up, um, I love working on kids when they're just starting to learn how to hop or jump, um, they fall a lot, so their lower backs get stuck a lot from falling down, and they hit their heads a lot, so um, I like that, um, bike riding, like, you know, there are some kiddos that can get on a bike and just pedal, pedal, pedal, but then there are other kids that have some interference in their system and need a little bit of support.
Um, some of the other things are, you know, milestones from an even an illness perspective, you know, sometimes our bodies get ill and they come out more resilient on the flip side, and so during those illnesses sometimes it can be really helpful to get adjusted because their body's going through a lot as well. Yeah, that makes sense, I love, love, love the option when kiddos have ear infections, chiropractic is so amazing for that, are there any other acute, like, common childhood things that you think chiropractic's really good for? Yeah, acute, I would say any sort of congestion, um, kind of my rule of thumb is, I'm not a germaphobe, but if you have to bring in a bucket to catch puke, like, I would prefer that to be gone before I see them.
Um, even though I love that an adjustment would actually really help their nervous system and their immune system at the same time, it's just a boundary, you know, totally reasonable, that's where I draw the line. So really, I feel like any acute situation — so I've seen kiddos that have recently fallen and their ankle has fallen, or they, um, I had a little girl that had fallen off the couch and landed on her knee funny, and she wasn't walking well on it, so that's an acute situation, um, ear infections are probably some of my favorite, even though the kiddos are miserable, their adjustments can just help, help so much, so much, you know, um, constipation, diarrhea, so GI dysregulation that can help with all those sorts of things.
What's the thought behind a chiropractic adjustment helping an ear infection? I think that goes back to, like, the first chiropractic adjustment, I don't know if that patient had an ear infection, but I just kind of wonder, you know, so um, with cranial adjusting, which is another technique that we do as well, um, you can really reset and release the pressure that's built up in the eustachian tube, which is oftentimes holding up the fluid in the ear that's causing the ear infection-like symptoms. Um, so getting the cranium adjusted, getting the upper neck adjusted, will help the lymphatics clear out and move, and also boost the immune system a little bit, to help kick it into gear to take care of the infection, um, and just overall help the kid get more comfortable, because their ears can drain instead of being so full of pressure.
What does cranium adjusting look like? So I blend a couple of techniques together, I do chiropractic bony osseous adjusting, um, through cranial adjusting, Turner style, um, so that's more bony contact to move and balance the cranium, um, but I also practice cranial sacral technique as well, which is more suture-based and very gentle movement, and restoring the cranial sacral flow. So either way though, cranial adjusting, it really looks like we're doing nothing, when we're holding on to a baby's head, because the pressure is just so light, um, so really it's just working on releasing any tension out of the cranium, restoring that cranial sacral flow, so everything can be in balance again, moving.
Yeah, so it's not like the adjusting the cranium seems different than, like, compared to if you're adjusting the spine? Yes, it's very different. Yeah, because obviously those joints look very different, right, so when I've experienced that kind of a treatment from you, it's like, you basically just have your hands on my head, and I can feel different levels of pressure, and maybe just, like, very, very, very slight movements. Yes, um, but oh my gosh, it feels so good, you know, very relaxing, I think, just to give people, if they've never had that done, it's kind of like, you know, if you've ever had somebody, like, give you a scalp massage, or, like, brush your hair, or those types of things, like, it's very relaxing, it feels good.
Yeah, so just to clear up, if anybody's like, what, she's adjusting the skull? Yes, it's very gentle and relaxing, very different. Yeah, well, and especially in kiddos, um, you know, there's a lot of kiddos that are struggling with, um, midline deformities, tongue tie, lip tie, which we'll get into here in a bit, but — let's do it now — well, with that, you know, we see cranial shaping issues, and head-turning preferences, and things like that, and so the cranial sacral therapy really helps balance all of those out.
Well, that's a perfect transition, so let's back up just a little bit, um, for the listeners, so they can better understand, because probably most people have heard about tongue ties or lip ties, because I feel like this is, you know, becoming a more popular, like, well-known topic out there. Yeah, and so you have a little bit of training, right, to identify some of those things, so maybe just explain some of that, like, what is a tongue tie, what is a lip tie, what does that look like, and then what can you evaluate for, and even start to, like, let's tie in, like, then what do we see, kind of, like, how you were saying, even with, like, structurally and shape-wise, what the skull or the cranium can look like.
That was a lot, but we can do it, it's a deep dive. I know it is a deep dive, a little bit. So yeah, so tongue ties, um, the best way to kind of describe it is — sometimes they get this bad rap, for, you know, everyone has this tongue tie and lip tie, and they all have to be released, well, or they get missed a lot by, you know, nurses, by pediatricians, by lactation consultants, missed, quote unquote, you know, um, and so parents come to me a lot frustrated, because they're like, well, we're having either breastfeeding issues, or dental issues, or palatal expansion issues, or cranial shaping issues, or movement and restriction issues, and they're like, so what, like, other than chiropractic care, is there a step further, like, is there more?
Yeah, and in a percentage — I don't know that I could guess an accurate percentage off the top of my head, I would have to do some thinking — um, there are cases that have tongue tie, lip tie, or a combo of both of those, um, where I think there's a big misconception, is you can't just look in the mouth and say, yep, that's a tongue tie or a lip tie, which is often what happens with, um, a lot of different providers, is look in there and say, oh, but the tissues look fine, moving on, when really a tongue tie assessment or a lip tie assessment should be functional — okay, maybe you have tissue there, maybe you don't, but is it functioning, and what can we do to get it functioning better, whether that's for breastfeeding, whether that's for oral resting posture and dental hygiene, or for body movements.
Um, so I do have a little bit of training in the oral assessment of the pre-crawling infant, um, but I've had my fingers in enough mouths to feel very comfortable evaluating basics. Um, so if I see someone that has, um, these signs and symptoms of midline tightness, so that's — you can't turn your head one way or another, or your posturing is really crowded forward, and, you know, forward-rolled-up posture, or you can't sit up tall, um, if you're walking, really — your gait is off, um, and you're doing all this work to try to fix that, and it's not making a difference, or it's not lasting — okay.
Um, in babies we can go back to the head shaping, in cranial or facial asymmetry, um, we can go to latch issues with breastfeeding, or side preferencing on mom, um, we can go into, like, colic and, uh, extreme fussiness, um, tightness where, like, babies don't like getting their diapers changed or their clothes changed, because they're just so tight and restricted. Um, I guess to back up a little bit too, so to understand the midline, um, they've done fascial dissections of the midline before, and the tongue tie, or the tongue fascia that they have dissected, actually runs, you know, under the tongue, through the throat, through the chest, through the diaphragm, through the abdomen, through the pelvic floor, around the hips, and down and out through the toes.
And so if you think about, you know, if one area is tight in that fascial train, that's going to affect all of those areas of that body, chain reaction. It really is. Yeah, so that's where, you know, chiropractic and tongue tie gets linked together, for the most part, is that midline tension, um, you know, the mouth is only a certain percentage of that fascial train, so addressing that tension and that function is really important, but if you're addressing, say, that 20% without addressing the rest of the body, you're missing a big piece of the puzzle, and so that's where I kind of got put into the chiropractic — or into the tongue tie world with chiropractic, is addressing the other percentage.
Yeah, it — I've just learned a smidge of the other end, you know, through experience, so that's why you'll hear that it's so important, that you can't just get the oral tie, like the tongue tie or the lip tie, released, and think everything's going to be fine, it really — if that does need to be done, okay, fine, but it really needs to be in conjunction with the rest of the body work. Yes, absolutely, because like you're saying, it's a chain reaction, and if you're just focusing on one area, you're only going to get so far. Yep, it's all connected together.
So much sense, absolutely. Well, we might have to clarify one thing for the listeners, fascia, they probably heard the word fascia, but, like, how would you describe to, like, a patient, like, if they just said, well, what do you mean fascia, like, what's the fascia? So the best way I tell them is, if you have, like, a roast, and you pull all the pieces of meat apart, and there's, like, the webbing in between — oh yeah — um, that's what I say our fascia is like, so fascia coats literally every single cell in our body, every muscle, every tendon, every ligament, every joint, everywhere, and it binds us.
And they've actually — I think I've seen a model of them dissecting fascia before, and the structure of the body stands on fascia alone, which is pretty cool, because when you think about the role that the skeletal system holds it into play, there's this small little other structure that is so thin and membranous that can hold our structure as well, it's pretty cool to think about. It's really cool, the human body is pretty amazing. Yeah, absolutely, okay, you mentioned some really interesting things that can impact the body, right, so you were saying things like, obviously, head and neck positioning, the shape, um, just how, like, tight or rigid or, like, forward, you know, like, carriage posturing, um, you mentioned even with, like, colic or, like, digestive issues, um, you mentioned oral health, so that would mean, like, cavities, mouth breathing, breathing, speech, speech, sleep apnea, snoring.
Yep, all of those, all those things, when I first learned about that, that, like, blew my mind. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool. Oh my gosh, I think the one thing that kind of gets missed in that category is some of the neuro side of things, so if we have any kiddos with neuro sensory processing disorders, um, or, um, auditory processing, you know, sensitivity, or any of those things, so you know, when we're born we have all these primitive reflexes that we're supposed to have, and they keep us alive essentially, um, but throughout time, movement integrates them into our system, but if your midline is very, very tight, you can't go through the full extremes of movement that you need to integrate those nervous system pieces, and so that can create a lot of neurosensory issues, you know, long term, which can look like, you know, learning disabilities or attention disabilities, you know, things like that.
And so um, when I see older kiddos that have been tongue-tied or lip-tied or really truly midline restricted their whole life, um, they often have the neuro side of things as well, um, and that's where we have Julie here to do some MRI, does some reflex integration work as well, to help get their bodies moving, to integrate those nervous system reflexes too. So I think that's one that's missed, that's amazing, pretty frequently. Okay, well this has been amazing, you're amazing, you're just, like, a wealth of knowledge, I know our patients believe so too, um, I hope our listeners found this conversation just as interesting and, you know, fascinating and helpful as I have.
Yeah, um, and so I'm sure we'll have you back on to talk about — I mean, there were so many things you talked about that I thought, you know, we could really do some, like, deep, deep dives on, if it was just going to be like a focused, you know, episode — on, even, we could keep going on the oral, tongue and lip tie stuff forever, I feel like. Absolutely, yeah, and pregnancy and pediatric stuff, and so we will make sure to link in the show notes, um, some resources from Dr. Kylie, um, even things like, you know, just all these other things that could help, like, pediatrics, or your kiddos with chiropractic, or women and pregnancy, and you know, so many other things.
So um, thank you so much, and thank you everybody for tuning in and listening, and we hope that you'll join us next time on the PHW podcast in our new, beautiful studio.